Need Wallet and Sheath

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caedmon
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Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby caedmon » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:58 pm

I'm almost done with a loong term project, a long knife I'm calling a BaurnSeax, and am doing the sheath for it, after a long time debating on various methods of hanging it I'm going to go with a vertical hang designed to work with my need wallet.

needwallet_baurnseax.jpg
needwallet_baurnseax.jpg (33.18 KiB) Viewed 1389 times


Here's my current progress I have thesheath shaped using the technique from the Winter 2017 issue of Edge of the Wild. And the paper pattern on my take on Ellet's Need Wallet from the Summer 2016 issue.

needwallet_baurnseax_1.jpg
needwallet_baurnseax_1.jpg (38.97 KiB) Viewed 1389 times
-Jack Horner

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Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
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Elleth
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Elleth » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:55 am

That looks like they're going to be AMAZING! How very cool.

I've been mystified about that hole-and-slit-and-stud/strap in the sheath, but I think I figured it out this morning... for a nagel?
The cultural mashup here is really intriguing: I can't wait to see what it looks like all done!
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby caedmon » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:45 pm

Elleth wrote:I've been mystified about that hole-and-slit-and-stud/strap in the sheath, but I think I figured it out this morning... for a nagel?


Wow, good eye for detail.That's exactly it. The BaurnSeax has a nagel, and so I am using the stud and strap to act as support for the end of the sheath.

Elleth wrote:The cultural mashup here is really intriguing: I can't wait to see what it looks like all done!


Yeah, I'm trying it out, we'll see if it works. The traditional view of the North (At least the Shire & Bree) is a mashup of 18th c. and 8th c. with a liberal helping of high medieval.

The idea I'm playing with is that once you get out into the woods, the 18th century overlay drops off, and the high medieval/migration era fusion ramps up. So I'm trying to see how well 14th/15th c. objects work with a migration era aesthetic. (What if Ulberht had a Landsknect client?)

The other thing I'm doing is trying to do is reduce the amount of metal in almost everything. So the need-wallet's buckes are bone, and the traditionally copper alloy seax sheath fittings are leather, etc.
-Jack Horner

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Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
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Udwin
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Udwin » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:19 pm

caedmon wrote:The other thing I'm doing is trying to do is reduce the amount of metal in almost everything. So the need-wallet's buckes are bone, and the traditionally copper alloy seax sheath fittings are leather, etc.


Hmm I would be interested in hearing your reasons for this direction. I would think Eriador (or Shire and Bree at least) would have ready access to metal via dwarves, and possibly their own blacksmiths. It's not like Beorn, who is explicitly described as having next-to-no metal objects.
Looking forward to the finished products regardless.
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caedmon
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby caedmon » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:27 pm

Udwin wrote:
caedmon wrote:The other thing I'm doing is trying to do is reduce the amount of metal in almost everything.


Hmm I would be interested in hearing your reasons for this direction. I would think Eriador (or Shire and Bree at least) would have ready access to metal via dwarves, and possibly their own blacksmiths.


A few reasons:

  • One of the very few descriptions we have of presumably non-royal dunedain was that save for the star brooch there was no glint of metal
  • Musing that the Dunedain are 'house rich and cash poor'. Yeah there are heirlooms of incredible value, but clothes are well patched and and metal is saved for plowshares, and axe heads.
  • Bone objects like buckles are well attested in the archaeological record, but under represented in reenactment.
  • It's a way to play with shapes with material that change the possibilities. For example a canon bone cut at an angle make a really nicely shaped dunedain buckle.
-Jack Horner

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Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Elleth » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:03 pm

This line?
A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired; and one stood there without a rider, Aragorn’s own horse that they had brought from the North; Roheryn was his name. There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear and harness: nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star.
ROTK, Bk V Ch2: The Passing of the Grey Company


I confess that doesn't read to me as if they were desperately poor of metal - rather that their dress was muted and that they eschewed bright ornamentation.
Which hardly means that they couldn't use bone, of course - only that I don't see the passage as implying iron or darkened bronze are uncommon either.

But again, we've all our own mental image. I think bone buckles could look really cool, and I can't wait to see the final product.
:mrgreen:
(edit - hunh... after a bit of looking around, I'd no idea they held on so long. I'd seen the occasional picture but always assumed they largely fell out of use by around the turn of the millennium. Interesting...)
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Greg
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Greg » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:52 am

I agree that I didn't read the passage as saying minimal in metals (particularly because there's a plethora of weaponry and armor present, so the crafting of metals is blatantly available) but I'm REALLY digging where you're headed with this.

caedmon wrote:The idea I'm playing with is that once you get out into the woods, the 18th century overlay drops off, and the high medieval/migration era fusion ramps up. So I'm trying to see how well 14th/15th c. objects work with a migration era aesthetic.

That is a fantastic summary of the otherwise confusing melting pot in Eriador. Saved.

How're you approaching the leather wrap for the scabbard, given the significant elevation changes due to the byknife/tools, etc? I'm in the middle of wrapping mine, and am still pondering methods since leather can only stretch 'so much'.
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby caedmon » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:48 am

Elleth wrote:This line?
A little apart the Rangers sat, silent, in an ordered company, armed with spear and bow and sword. They were clad in cloaks of dark grey, and their hoods were cast now over helm and head. Their horses were strong and of proud bearing, but rough-haired; and one stood there without a rider, Aragorn’s own horse that they had brought from the North; Roheryn was his name. There was no gleam of stone or gold, nor any fair thing in all their gear and harness: nor did their riders bear any badge or token, save only that each cloak was pinned upon the left shoulder by a brooch of silver shaped like a rayed star.
ROTK, Bk V Ch2: The Passing of the Grey Company


I confess that doesn't read to me as if they were desperately poor of metal - rather that their dress was muted and that they eschewed bright ornamentation.
Which hardly means that they couldn't use bone, of course - only that I don't see the passage as implying iron or darkened bronze are uncommon either.

But again, we've all our own mental image. I think bone buckles could look really cool, and I can't wait to see the final product.
:mrgreen:
(edit - hunh... after a bit of looking around, I'd no idea they held on so long. I'd seen the occasional picture but always assumed they largely fell out of use by around the turn of the millennium. Interesting...)


Yeah, I don't really think they were that poor either. It's mostly a mental exercise I went on whilst meditating on the passage. But also bone/morse doesn't necessary imply poor.

As for late bone buckles, check these 15th c. buckles out:


gothicbuckles.jpg
gothicbuckles.jpg (43.27 KiB) Viewed 1200 times
-Jack Horner

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Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby caedmon » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:58 am

Greg wrote:How're you approaching the leather wrap for the scabbard, given the significant elevation changes due to the byknife/tools, etc? I'm in the middle of wrapping mine, and am still pondering methods since leather can only stretch 'so much'.



I'm following the Museum of London Knives & Scabbards book, and doing separate inner sheaths of goatskin. I'm hoping that offset holes and wetforming the outer sheathe will be enough, but we'll see.

Also, nobody seems to do sheathes where the by-knives are pointed the other direction (I'll probably find out why). I'm hoping it's just because horizontal suspension is not common.
-Jack Horner

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Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Greg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:07 pm

caedmon wrote:I'm hoping it's just because horizontal suspension is not common.

That'd be my guess. Keep the fit snug, or you'll engineer the problem yourself!
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby caedmon » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:58 am

And here's where I'm at with the need wallet. Buckles are proving trickier than I intended. (Note to self: It's easier to cut strap to fit existing buckles than to manufacture buckles to fit strap.)

need wallet - 1.jpg
need wallet - 1.jpg (30.38 KiB) Viewed 813 times


The inner lining is inspired by a piece Jake Book did several years back. I'd link it, but can't seem to find it.
need wallet - 2.jpg
need wallet - 2.jpg (46.47 KiB) Viewed 813 times
need wallet - 3.jpg
need wallet - 3.jpg (33.77 KiB) Viewed 813 times


A closer look at the incised design, a fairly straight forward Numeonrean/Dunedain plant motif.
need wallet - 4.jpg
need wallet - 4.jpg (35.32 KiB) Viewed 813 times
-Jack Horner

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Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Greg » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:20 am

Those accordion sides are inspired. Very nice!
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Elleth
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Elleth » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:01 pm

Hunh - I had wondered what that extra stitching was for. Very cool!

I've seen 18th c. shot pouches done that way - I'm very curious to hear how this works out! Very neat!

re/ buckles: if you're using metal mounting plates, I could imagine you could make up some length by mounting them a little bit further out and willing the gap with leather scrap? I've done that kind of cheat before, and assuming there's not a lot of stress on it and there's still enough meat at the end of the "real" strap it works okay.

.... also the kind of thing that would have been done in the real materials-poor period.
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Re: Need Wallet and Sheath

Postby Iodo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:56 pm

Greg wrote:Those accordion sides are inspired. Very nice!

I agree, are the sides a folded semicircular pattern?
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