Quiver position and arrow drawing

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Arbellason
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Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Arbellason » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:24 pm

So I got a decent back quiver on Saturday and when I put a few arrows into it to see how fast and silently I could draw an arrow out it seemed that they were just out of reach. I have never bothered to use a quiver before as I usually just target shoot so I was wondering how everyone else coups with this problem and what they do to extend their reach. Any help is appreciated for this embarrassed ranger.
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Manveruon
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Manveruon » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:30 pm

Honestly, back quivers take a while to get used to - especially if they only use one strap, because they tend to slide around, and your arrows are often not in the same place (which can be bad). I found I had that same problem when I first started using mine. Eventually, I just got used to the way the thing rested on my back, and developed a draw style accordingly. It took some practice. My biggest problem was that my arrows were a bit too long to draw them by the nocks. I use un-cut 32" shafts, so they stuck up quite high behind me. To remedy this, I started grasping my arrows below the fletching, and overall I had quite a bit of luck with this method, and became very used to it. It worked well, except that I had to constantly look down while nocking in order to make sure the cock-fletch was in the correct position. After a while of doing this, I realized how silly it was, since I had intentionally tied a knot at the nocks of my arrows to act as an index (I don't use modern plastic nocks, so there wasn't one built in), specifically so I could nock by feel and not have to look down as I was doing so (this helps with both speed and accuracy, as you never have to take your eye off the target). So eventually I started trying to draw the arrows by the nocks again, and now I've become used to that method instead. It took a lot of practice to get the right kind of motion figured out, since my arrows were so darned long. Every now and again I still have trouble with them clearing the quiver, but I've gotten much better at it.

Anyway, that was a bit rambly, but I hope it helps. The long and short of it is, it just takes practice, and you'll have to find a method of drawing that works best for you. There isn't really a "right" or "wrong" way to do it.
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Peter Remling
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Peter Remling » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:44 pm

If you want to use a single strap and don't want the quiver to slide, attach the front of the strap to your belt. The strap will keep the quiver in the same place all the time.
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Arbellason
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Arbellason » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:18 am

I tried think I might have fixed the problem by keeping right behind my head instead of towards the shoulder and that seems to work better but it makes for a lot of movement something that I would preferably cut down.
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Greg
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Greg » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:14 am

A traditional back quiver, with the strap extending from the top lip of the tube to the bottom edge of the tube, is going to hang far closer to horizontal than a "vertical" quiver should. This creates problems like those seen in robin hood: men-in-tights, when the trainee archers are spinning around and contorting themselves into awkward positions while trying to reach the arrows, as well as problems like the archer spinning around quickly, such as in a fight, and the arrows being thrown ceremoniously out of the quiver. Ask Ernildihir about this sometime...He may try to deny it, but if you mention the Bilbo Baggins birthday Bash and "Golfimbul"...I'm sure he'll remember. :)

...but you didn't hear that from me.

How to remedy this?

The problem lies in where the strap attaches to the quiver at its base. This is what pulls the bottom end up, decreasing the steepness of the angle, making the arrows more prone to coming out than staying in. So by detaching the strap from the base of the quiver, and re-attaching it, say, 1/3-1/2 of the way up from the bottom, the base of the quiver will settle lower, and the strap can hold it tighter to your body by turning under your bow arm instead of around your hip. This rotates the quiver more towards the vertical, and places the fletching (generally) just to the right of your head...a location easily built into muscle memory with a little practice.


On the topic of grabbing nocks, if you can devise a system to help you find the cock feather without having to look at it, then great, but bear in mind that in a speed-shooting scenario, the small differences in accuracy caused by shooting cock-feather-in aren't going to be monumental at the ranges you're dealing with. If you need to be shooting super-fast, I daresy you're dealing with Orcs at 30 yards or less, and closing. Precise throat shots aren't going to be what you're hoping for...we're talking center-mass there. Painful, and loaded with stopping-power...so don't be too concerned with grabbing the nock and having it face the right way in that case.
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Manveruon » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:39 am

^ Literally everything that Greg said. Seriously. Excellent advice, all of it.

I made this mistake wen making my quiver, and it still sits extremely slanted on my back. I've just frankly been too lazy to actually fix this problem. However, Peter's suggestion about the belt also works like a charm. I've done that before on several occasions.

As for the nock index though, Greg, this is the one thing I on which I would slightly differ from you. Not that the position of the cock fletch makes much difference at that range - I agree, it completely does not - but rather, I find the index actually helps me nock the arrow faster in general. Tonight, as I was shooting a timed round in a small tourney, I especially noticed this. When my thumb found the knot I used for a nock index, I ALWAYS nocked the arrow quickly and securely. But when my thumb failed to find the knot, I tended to fumble around with the shaft, once even dropping my arrow entirely, which naturally hurt my shooting time significantly. So no, it may not be necessary to know exactly where the cock fletch is, as such, but it IS helpful to know exactly which direction the nock of the arrow is sitting, so as to get it onto that string fast and true. Mind you, this is only really an issue if you're not looking down at your arrow as you nock, but I am trying to do that more lately, because I feel it helps my speed and my accuracy both. Anyway, just my two pence.
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Greg
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Greg » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:58 pm

I can agree with that as well. When I first started practicing/developing a technique for speed shooting, I had plastic indexed nocks on the dozen I was shooting, and I used them with success to have things lined up. When I went over to self-nocks, what I feel for instead is the slot. When you grip the nock, if you can feel the slot between your thumb and forefinger, it's lined up wrong and won't hit the string right when you bring it down. Rotate it between your fingers as you're drawing it out and bringing it to your bow until you feel no slot, and when the shaft hits the string, it'll practically thread itself. Sounds like a lot of work, but it becomes natural pretty quick. Doing as many steps as possible in one motion is the real key here.

I actually like what you mentioned about knotting some thread on the cock feather side...I may have to try this, when budget finally allows me to "re-enter" the world of archery. I'm down to 2 1/2 functional arrows...and blade projects are taking up all of my budget right now. I've got some materials sitting in some linen in the closet waiting for yet another attempt at bowyering...when I have access to a bandsaw again. Too many projects, and only ~60 more years to live. I'm running out of time.

For the record, I believe that not looking down at the bow should be a goal, even when shooting slowly (ie. Hunting, etc.) Keeping your eye on the target is everything. I was hunting quail in the LA mountains years ago, and the second it took to look down at the bow lost me the bird. NO clue where that phantom feathered rat ran off to.
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Eledhwen
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Eledhwen » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:25 pm

I use simple self nocks...I go buy the slot but I also ensure the thread wrap has a slightly different feel behind the cock feather. Once I got used to it I had no problem at all.

Otherwise I have essentially the same outlook as Greg.

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Arbellason
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Arbellason » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:52 pm

When I get my arrows I'll show a picture of the quiver and my new bamboo shafted arrows. Thanks for the advice Everyone. :D
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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby robinhoodsghost » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:33 pm

I have a heavy leather pouch attached to the hip of my one strap back quiver. the extra weight from the contents keeps the quiver from sliding without the need of an addtional strap. keep your string wax, extra bowstring, cell phone, whatever in there....it comes in handy....and it slips off within a second, without the need of undoing an extra strap. If it is placed right the arrows are easy to reach.... also flaten your quiver,it keeps the noise down during stalking and pushes the arrows closer to your back, whick makes them easier to reach..

http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/robin ... 5025576573

hope that helps,

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Re: Quiver position and arrow drawing

Postby Elleth » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:56 am

For what it's worth, I'm a total newb with a back quiver of any kind, but I finally had the chance to play with my new "trail blazer" quiver fro 3 Rivers. Not exactly Ranger style, but I wanted to experiment with an off the shelf model before I spent the money and TIME making my own.

... I REALLY like the thing! it sits backpack style with the arrows right behind your head. Further, provided the quiver is worn high enough, it's easy to index off the back face of the quiver and return arrows to the quiver by feel. And again .. I've never worn a back quiver before tonight. It was just amazingly intuitive.

I've yet to get into the woods with it.. the snow here is now deep mush almost impossible to move in.... but in another weekend or two I should be able to get out and see how it fares ducking under branches and creeping through brush. So far though, I'm really impressed. I suspect whenever i get to making a real Tolkienesque quiver it will borrow heavily from this model.


=============

Edit - one week and a little brushdiving later... one of the reasons I tried the "backpack" type was that I'd heard from a trad hunter type that it helped in the brush. That is - because the arrows are just behind your head, they're less likely to get caught up tangles as you weave through dense growth. So far, that's my experience as well. I was cutting through a stand of young trees with a bit of undergrowth, and expected to get snagged every which way. Nope... if I ducked my head through an opening, the arrows came right along behind. I might as well have not been wearing a quiver at all!

It will be a few more romps before I'm certain - and I need to try temporarily rigging it "over the shoulder" style for comparison's sake... but so far still very happy.

Only complaint - the shearling doesn't help much to keep rattle down. I think some combination of more shearling, more arrows (wooo more arrows!) and perhaps some kind of internal tiedown will help. We'll see.
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