Numenorean design motifs

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 838
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by caedmon »

Manveruon wrote:
Elleth wrote:well - I have the .eps files around here somewhere for the band on my cookpot and I think some renderings of a Gondorian rosette and border: if you want to put together a PDF, I'll happily shoot the files to you. :mrgreen:
That would be awesome, actually! I would love to work up a compilation of various re-useable motifs into a shareable PDF doc, so something like that would be most welcome!
My original idea with his thread was to be such a compilation. How about we do this....

Let's start a new thread where we post individual designs and we can upvote/down vote them. People with artistic/drafing skill can take a motif, item or border, realize it in a form that can be used. (I.m thinking pdf/eps/svg) Then we post results in a library? Maybe in a separate comment-free thread , dropbox location (i.e. Google drive, Dropbox, OneDrive, etc.), a third party design library (like an pinterest board, or better yet, thingiverse), or maybe the wiki?

I'd be happy to commit to at least one design a month, and if some of our other artsy types wanted to help we could have something useful pretty quick.
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Manveruon »

That’s a great idea! I’m not sure that I can commit to any regular number of designs in any given time period, but I’d definitely be open to participating. I would also maybe consider labeling each one with its intended purpose, culture, and approximate time period, where possible.
User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 838
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by caedmon »

Ok, Here are the choices for February. In a week I'll tabulate the votes and convert the image to a digital format making it easy to adapt for your designs. Depending on the design it could have several variants including line art and color.

A. a Numenorean Arc-line border, as it has been adapted for a belt strap-end

B. A conjectural 3rd Age Dunedain floral motif

C. A Numenorean 'mandala' adapted from Tolkien's Numenorean floor tile sketch
month 1.png
month 1.png (240.54 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
Elleth
êphal ki-*raznahê
Posts: 2339
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:26 am
Location: in the Angle; New England

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Elleth »

I *adore* B. :)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Manveruon »

OH YESSSSSSSS I LOVE THESE SO MUCH
Cimrandir
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:44 am

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Cimrandir »

Oh heck yeah! I love both A + B!
That buckle end feels just right as an older style (perhaps passed down as a heirloom to the 3rd Age?) and I can easily see a sheath or something of the like with that floral motif!
User avatar
theowl
Vendor
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:15 am
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by theowl »

A and B are awesome
User avatar
Sorrel
Wanderer
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:31 am
Location: North of the Angle

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Sorrel »

C immediately reminds me of a pattern for a knitted tam, I bet it would look great as one
User avatar
Eofor
Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:40 am

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Eofor »

A great idea Caedmon

For me it's B

They're all great and I love that belt but I think B would be more universal in it's use as a decoration. It wouldn't look out of place on a belt strap end itself, or around the rim of a clay jug, embossed in a leather strap etc etc etc.
For seven days without eating or sleeping the new king sat, until he stood and cried "This cannot be borne!"!
User avatar
Taylor Steiner
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:31 pm
Location: Great Falls Montana
Contact:

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Taylor Steiner »

I like c :)
Frodo lives!
RangerofAngmar
Wanderer
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:14 am

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by RangerofAngmar »

100% A

it has more of the essence of the mandala that Tolkien drew
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Manveruon »

As for the above images, if we’re picking one out of the three, I would also vote for B - but A is a close contender. Honestly, I like them all for different reasons, and I think they all have different potential applications.

With that in mind, for my part, if and when I start sketching up some designs, I would personally like to focus primarily on designs reflective of 3rd Age Dúnedain culture, and/or motifs that might be common with the various human cultures of Eriador, including the Breelands, the Angle, etc. with perhaps some older Numenorean and even maybe Elvish motifs blended into the mix here and there to suggest a certain degree (small though it may be) of cultural cross-pollination.

Can we talk a little about general forms and motifs that might be present in that area? Either drawn from the Numenorean designs of the Professor’s own work, as we’ve been doing in this thread, or perhaps even inspired by real-world designs. Or yet, perhaps just from the natural flora and fauna of the region/period.

Like, would any sort of knotwork be applicable? Perhaps nothing quite so heavy-handed as the intricate zoomorphs seen in Norse and Anglo-Saxon knotwork, nor the heavily geometric symmetry and complexity of Celtic knotwork, but maybe some simplified knot forms? And how about things like nature-inspired “whiplash-lines?” Too Elvish/Art-Nouveau? Maybe some High Medieval inspired scrolling vines with things like stylized oak leaves, acorns, ivy leaves, etc? Even some subtle Arabesque designs perhaps?

Anyway, just spitballing, but before I get started trying to whip some stuff up I want to get a good idea in my head of the parameters.
User avatar
caedmon
Balku'npâ
Posts: 838
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Palmer Alaska

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by caedmon »

Manveruon wrote: Like, would any sort of knotwork be applicable?
The only reference, that I know of, to knotwork/interlace patterns in all of Tolkien's work is in The Lost Road, where the young Isildur is laying on a rug with Interlaced birds in his father's study back in Numenor.

I suppose that Tolkien's doodles that I adapted into the pennanular brooches are 'knotwork adjacent'. But they're really hard to classify. (What they are is a mid-century modern take on Mucha style Art Noveau plant interlace.)

Manveruon wrote: And how about things like nature-inspired “whiplash-lines?” Too Elvish/Art-Nouveau?
As for whiplash lines, do you mean spiral work like in the tree at the Moria's Door?
moria.png
moria.png (11.01 KiB) Viewed 908 times

Or more classic Mucha?


Mucha13748g12_master.jpg
Mucha13748g12_master.jpg (85.8 KiB) Viewed 908 times


The biggest problem with third age Dunedain, is that we have two data points. The HIGHEST Ranked person in the entire culture, and some hard-bitten troops on the way to war who are specifically called out as having nothing ornamented on their person, save their star brooches.
-Jack Horner

----------------------------
Impression: Boater Wesman ( Balku'npâ Adúnerama ) bronze founder living in Archet, Breelander of mixed dúnedain descent. c. 3017
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2272
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Manveruon »

Yeah, that’s essentially what I’m talking about. Either one is a reasonable example of what I mean. Seems like a lot of Tolkien’s sketches may have had some Art Nouveau influences, particularly in relation to the elves.

But of course you’re right about the data points. Still, if I remember correctly, the Grey Company was described as wearing “no other fair thing” than their brooches, or something to that effect, right? Which, personally I sort of interpreted as them not having, like... a whole lot of shiny gold and silver, and bright jewels, and just general bling, more than not having any embellishment on their accoutrements at all. Of course, it’s entirely possible that he fully meant that all their clothing and gear was completely plain and undecorated, but something about little embellishments on things really makes them come alive for me, I’m finding, and historically nearly everything that was commonly used got decorated or embellished in some way or other, so it feels natural that the same might apply here.
User avatar
Greg
Urush bithî 'nKi ya-nam bawâb
Posts: 4198
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: Eriador; Central Indiana

Re: Numenorean design motifs

Post by Greg »

I don’t think that having nothing “fair” in all their gear or harness truly means everything plain. Even the rough-riding dust-covered cowboys in Hollywood flicks have tooling on their saddles...so it isn’t a far cry to ornament a strap, etc. I truly think that the word “fair” is intended to refer to bling in the “shiny” sense.

That being said, tooling can be taken too far, given that bit of artistic license...but that’s all about personal preference at that point.
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
Post Reply