Morgul Blade.

A central place to talk about weapons and armour, as it relates to your kit. This is where you show it of or talk about making it. Discussing the relative merits of types of weapons goes in the WMA section.

Moderators: caedmon, Greg

User avatar
Eric C
Thangailhir
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:02 am
Location: Central NC, USA

Morgul Blade.

Postby Eric C » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:44 am

Mmkay, here we go. I finished one of my very overdue commissions today and I want to start work on a long-term project that I've played around with in my mind for a while. I want to try my hand at creating what I see in my own mind when I think of some of the weapons in LOTR.

About the first blade that comes to mind is the Morgul blade. As is usually the case, I believe the Professor left the design of this blade mostly to our imagination. I don't have my books in front of me right now, but I recall there were runes in the black speech on the hilts. Other than that, I don't remember any other description. As for the movie blade, I think they did a good job, but the guard always looked upside-down to me.

So, what say you, Rangers? Do you have any insights on the Morgul blade that I have overlooked? What are your ideas about these evil weapons of the Dark Lord Sauron?
Ichthean Forge (pronounced Ick thee an). Maker of knives.
User avatar
Peter Remling
Athel Dunedain
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:20 am

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Peter Remling » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:53 am

Being that the Nine are armed with hand and a half swords, I think the movie version's blade is a little narrow. Something along a Cinquedea blade size. Yeah I hated the inverted guard too.
User avatar
Udwin
Vendor
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm
Location: banks of the great River, Kaintuckiana
Contact:

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Udwin » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:38 am

"And more deadly to Frodo was this!' He stooped again and lifted up a long thin knife. There was a cold gleam in it. As Strider raised it they saw that near the end its edge was notched and the point was broken off. " LR I:12, Flight to the Ford
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Boffin, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA
User avatar
Peter Remling
Athel Dunedain
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:20 am

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Peter Remling » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:24 am

Udwin wrote:
"And more deadly to Frodo was this!' He stooped again and lifted up a long thin knife. There was a cold gleam in it. As Strider raised it they saw that near the end its edge was notched and the point was broken off. " LR I:12, Flight to the Ford


Ok you got me. Practically thinking, it should be wider but there it is.
User avatar
Eric C
Thangailhir
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:02 am
Location: Central NC, USA

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Eric C » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:01 am

In the reference above, it says that the edge was notched and the tip broken. Two thoughts come to mind.
1) Is the edge notched because of old battle damage?

2) Is the edge notched as a design feature to ensure that the tip would break off in the Nasgul's prey?

I don't believe that the Morgul blade is meant to see much combat. I would think it is a blade that is used exactly as we see it on Weathertop. It is a "finishing blade." It would seem to me that the notched edge is a design feature to seal the victim's fate.

As a smith, that could present some serious heat treat issues. Such a notch would likely create a stress riser and crack in heat treat. There is a way to try to avoid it by rounding the notch so there are no sharp angles.
Ichthean Forge (pronounced Ick thee an). Maker of knives.
User avatar
Harper
Amrod Rhandir
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Harper » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:49 am

I get more of a Coustille vibe here. The blade would have to be long to accomodate the size of a Numenorean.

While it is not explicitly stated in the text, I too think that the tip is "meant" to break off into the victim.
User avatar
Iodo
Haeropada
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Iodo » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:25 pm

Eric C wrote:Is the edge notched as a design feature to ensure that the tip would break off in the Nasgul's prey?

That's something I'd never thought of, I guess I always imagined it to be a kind of magic, a bit more like in the movie rather than a mechanical feature

I don't know if it's WETA's influence (it's been a while since I read the books) but I always pictured it as a blackened blade, or grey, certainly not polished. I don't know if there's any historic truth in it but I figured that to poison a blade, the blade in question would have to have a rough surface finish so the poison could stick? assuming the poison in question is a liquid in the traditional sense, not some kind of evil magic in the metal

Eric C wrote: I would think it is a blade that is used exactly as we see it on Weathertop. It is a "finishing blade."

Agreed, I'm imagining a long dagger carried as a side-arm
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Darnokthemage
Silent Watcher over the Peaceful Lands
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Darnokthemage » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:58 pm

It also has to be considered if they are made in Minas Morgul for throwaway use, or are ancient blades that just happened to shatter.
Artist, larper and history lover.
User avatar
Iodo
Haeropada
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Iodo » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:29 pm

Darnokthemage wrote:It also has to be considered if they are made in Minas Morgul for throwaway use, or are ancient blades that just happened to shatter.

and yet if they shattered that easily, they may not have become ancient?
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Manveruon
Thangailhir
Posts: 2088
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:11 am
Location: Littleton, CO
Contact:

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Manveruon » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:55 pm

Tolkien described the blade as sort of “melting” rather than shattering, so I always imagined it was some kind of enchantment designed to prevent the victim or their allies from retrieving the blade and somehow using it to develop an antidote or counter-spell.
User avatar
Eric C
Thangailhir
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:02 am
Location: Central NC, USA

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Eric C » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:55 pm

Iodo wrote:
I don't know if it's WETA's influence (it's been a while since I read the books) but I always pictured it as a blackened blade, or grey, certainly not polished. I don't know if there's any historic truth in it but I figured that to poison a blade, the blade in question would have to have a rough surface finish so the poison could stick? assuming the poison in question is a liquid in the traditional sense, not some kind of evil magic in the metal

Eric C wrote: I would think it is a blade that is used exactly as we see it on Weathertop. It is a "finishing blade."

Agreed, I'm imagining a long dagger carried as a side-arm


I would think the blade would have a patina to it since it is most likely very old. But if magical, that may be invalid.

Manveruon wrote:Tolkien described the blade as sort of “melting” rather than shattering, so I always imagined it was some kind of enchantment designed to prevent the victim or their allies from retrieving the blade and somehow using it to develop an antidote or counter-spell.


Good point, and something to be considered.
Ichthean Forge (pronounced Ick thee an). Maker of knives.
User avatar
Peter Remling
Athel Dunedain
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:20 am

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Peter Remling » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:24 pm

Were the blades corrupted when their masters were or were the blades made for them after they were corrupted ? It could make a difference in their construction ! For instance a blade made prior would have been a blade made by normal means. It may have been given magical properties but at it's core a high quality forged blade. If it was made for the Nine after they were corrupted they could have been formed not forged. Imagine a blade formed from the essence of malice or decay, coalesced in a tangible form.
User avatar
Eric C
Thangailhir
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:02 am
Location: Central NC, USA

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Eric C » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:03 pm

Peter Remling wrote:Were the blades corrupted when their masters were or were the blades made for them after they were corrupted ? It could make a difference in their construction ! For instance a blade made prior would have been a blade made by normal means. It may have been given magical properties but at it's core a high quality forged blade. If it was made for the Nine after they were corrupted they could have been formed not forged. Imagine a blade formed from the essence of malice or decay, coalesced in a tangible form.



THAT is a very good line of thought! If forged before, their original usage would have even been noble. Perhaps even a healing property? I know, a healing sharp pointy object. But Middle Earth is quite magical. Anyway, after the Nine fell, their purpose would have changed completely.

Edit: The Witch King to one of his soldiers before the fall: Hold still! Ima stab you with this healing blade! It'll make you feel better!
Ichthean Forge (pronounced Ick thee an). Maker of knives.
User avatar
Iodo
Haeropada
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm
Location: North west england UK

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Iodo » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:11 pm

Eric C wrote:Hold still! Ima stab you with this healing blade! It'll make you feel better!

thanks for the offer but, I think I'll take my chances... :P LOL

seriously though, that would be quite an interesting magical artifact
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
User avatar
Eric C
Thangailhir
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:02 am
Location: Central NC, USA

Re: Morgul Blade.

Postby Eric C » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:52 pm

Iodo wrote:
Eric C wrote:Hold still! Ima stab you with this healing blade! It'll make you feel better!

thanks for the offer but, I think I'll take my chances... :P LOL



:lol: :lol:
Ichthean Forge (pronounced Ick thee an). Maker of knives.

Return to “Weapons & Armour”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests